Page 1 of 19 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Saranel Binyon 
January 21, 1998 
Cassette 1, Side 2 
 
 
Saranel Binyon  00:01 
22 and I taught senior high school. It was scary.  
 
Katherin Hervey  00:04 
English? 
 
Saranel Binyon  00:07 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:07 
Did you like it?  
 
Saranel Binyon  00:10 
Yeah, I liked it, except that I didn't like to be told what I needed to do. You know, like, they 
needed to read this, that and the other, and they had to do this and that. And that was irritating, 
you know, because I knew that that wasn't what they needed. And that was hard for me, it's hard 
for me to follow someone else's dictate in any, in any situation. But that was one reason I 
couldn't stay as a school teacher, because they tell you what to do.  
 
Katherin Hervey  00:40 
So, did you kind of find your own ways to work around that, though? 
 
Saranel Binyon  00:44 
I did, I did, but there were, there-- It was a constant source of irritation. So, I got really tired of 
that real quick. I taught, I think, three years. 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:51 
And then, what did you do?  
 
Saranel Binyon  00:54 
I played.  
 
Katherin Hervey  00:57 
Page 2 of 19 
 
Played? 
 
Saranel Binyon  00:57 
Yeah, I had kids and played, did volunteering. And that was the time that I had modeled from 
[inaudible]. By time, I was 13, I guess that's a job, because they paid you, and I quit all types of 
modeling when I was 37, [inaudible], I quit doing it. And that was, you know, I could always do 
that on and off, and a lot of volunteer stuff. I really liked working with horses, and had all my 
life, and that was a fun job, too, but they were my horses, so I got to do them [?when I needed 
to?]. 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:57 
Do you have horses now?  
 
Saranel Binyon  01:06 
I don't now, this is the first time in my life, of the past six years that I haven't had horses. And it's 
like, I'm not really me, I don't have that part. 
 
Katherin Hervey  01:40 
Because, because you live up here now, or? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:48 
Mm-hmm, yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  01:48 
And is there just not a place, or? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:51 
Well, they cost a lot up here, and there's not a place right now that really has tons, unfortunately. 
But someday. 
 
Katherin Hervey  02:07 
So, when did you start doing the-- I'm blanking. 
 
Saranel Binyon  02:14 
Hypnotherapy?  
 
Katherin Hervey  02:14 
The hypnotherapy? 
 
Saranel Binyon  02:19 
I learned about it when I was teaching school. And then, of course, you know, you read books 
and, you know stuff, and I knew about it, and I would use it to get the kids to be quiet, but we 
couldn't call it that. Back then, I'd have them close their eyes, and I'd tell them a story. And 
basically, it was hypnosis, it was really nice. So, way back then-- 
 
Katherin Hervey  02:42 
Page 3 of 19 
 
[Laughs]. 
 
Saranel Binyon  02:44 
No, they would all relax and be nice, and it was cool, I liked it. You know, we'd do that a lot with 
them. And then I realized that I could teach them to spell, because I taught reading and spelling 
one year, like that, to close their eyes, and I could spell out the word, you know, and then have 
them write it, and all that. They got where they could really spell and sit still, it was cool. And I 
began as a professional I think 1985? '84, '85 somewhere in there. I was also, at that time, 
teaching creative writing at the University. 
 
Katherin Hervey  03:21 
In El Paso? 
 
Saranel Binyon  03:22 
Mm-hmm, mostly. 
 
Katherin Hervey  03:22 
What was that like?  
 
Saranel Binyon  03:23 
It was just a little slice of hell because the kids that were coming out of school couldn't write, 
couldn't spell, couldn't read, and didn't care. I mean, it was just horrible.  
 
Katherin Hervey  03:34 
Could you use any of the same techniques on them?  
 
Saranel Binyon  03:38 
I tried, but kids that age, when they're freshmen and sophomores, are really wild little creatures, 
they [?needlessly?] roam wild, just run for a minute and then bring them back.  
 
Katherin Hervey  03:50 
So, you didn't do that-- How long did you do that for?  
 
Saranel Binyon  03:52 
I did that for two years, but it was a part time job. I also taught English as a second language, that 
was really interesting, because, of course, I had a lot of the Mexican population, and they're easy 
people to work with. But I had Muslims, and I've never been around Muslim men before. You 
know anything about Muslim men? Know that you can't look at them, or, you know, any of this 
stuff. And they went to the head of the department and complained about me because I looked at 
them and wore pants, [inaudible] a dress. And so I totally ringed them and told them they were in 
my class, and I'd do what I wanted to, or they could leave, and they stayed. We have, you know, 
kind of an interesting relationship after that, but it was a strange feeling to have that come at you 
from an American classroom. 
 
Katherin Hervey  04:41 
Did they want you to be a man, a man?  
Page 4 of 19 
 
 
Saranel Binyon  04:43 
They wanted me to be a man or a Muslim woman, to wear whatever it was and not look at them 
and so. 
 
Katherin Hervey  04:55 
Where did you teach that at? 
 
Saranel Binyon  04:56 
[?At, at UTEP?]. 
 
Katherin Hervey  04:56 
At UTEP? 
 
Saranel Binyon  04:56 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Katherin Hervey  04:56 
Where did you go to school at?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:00 
At UTEP.  
 
Katherin Hervey  05:01 
When did you move to El Paso?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:03 
I was 20, [inaudible]. 
 
Katherin Hervey  05:04 
And you moved there for school, or? 
 
Saranel Binyon  05:12 
Yeah, the man that I was married to, he and I both graduated from UTEP. 
 
Katherin Hervey  05:19 
And then you live there until you moved out here, which was how long ago?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:19 
Six years ago, whatever that was. 
 
Katherin Hervey  05:20 
That long ago? No. 
 
Saranel Binyon  05:20 
Yeah, it's been that long. We have been up here six years.  
Page 5 of 19 
 
 
Katherin Hervey  05:22 
Were you here before we were?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:29 
We were at the same time. 
 
Katherin Hervey  05:30 
Really? Okay. 
 
Saranel Binyon  05:37 
Exactly, at least you haven't lived in the same house the whole time.  
 
Katherin Hervey  05:47 
No. So, how much did you earn as, as a teacher, and what did you, what did you do with it, 
support yourself, support your children, buy a car? 
 
Saranel Binyon  05:57 
No. You know what, I don't even remember. Not enough. I just gave it to my husband like a 
good little wife. Boy, was that stupid? And who knows what he did with it. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:12 
So, was it something that, that that was what he asked for? Was it just-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  06:12 
No, I think it was, yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:15 
 -- sort of falling into your specific roles?  
 
Saranel Binyon  06:19 
It was a role, a falling into a role thing. And also not being interested in it, you know, I didn't 
care. That wasn't enough money to screw with, so I didn't care about it, and have since learned 
that that was the wrong attitude. But I didn't know it then. And so because of that, he was able to 
pretty much control the whole relationship the whole time. Women should pay attention to that 
and not ever let their spouses or whatever touch a penny of theirs. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:54 
Was your, your mom and dad, they had a, they had a similar thing? A similar relationship 
regarding money or property?  
 
Saranel Binyon  07:00 
I guess. You know, I don't even, I didn't even pay any attention to that. And it wasn't until I 
started the divorce proceedings that I really woke up to the fact that he had hidden all the assets, 
and I couldn't get to it. It was just really amazing.  
 
Page 6 of 19 
 
Katherin Hervey  07:14 
Purposely, [?he'd hidden it?]?  
 
Saranel Binyon  07:15 
Well, yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  07:17 
Why is that? 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:18 
That's so he got to keep them.  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:20 
So, you didn't get any money when you guys divorced? 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:47 
Mm-mm, not to speak of.  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:47 
But the kids?  
 
Saranel Binyon  07:48 
No.  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:48 
You didn't get the kids?  
 
Saranel Binyon  07:50 
No, well, the kids were grown. 
 
Katherin Hervey  07:51 
Oh, that's right. 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:52 
I waited until the kids were grown.  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:53 
Did you do that purposely?  
 
Saranel Binyon  07:54 
Yes, I did. 
 
Katherin Hervey  07:56 
So, they were like, 18, 19? 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:57 
Page 7 of 19 
 
Yeah, my daughter was 26 and my son was 20. 19 or 20. 
 
Katherin Hervey  08:01 
And did they support you?  
 
Saranel Binyon  08:02 
Yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  08:02 
That's good. So, in, in your jobs that you've had, have you, have you worked more with women 
or more with men? 
 
Saranel Binyon  08:09 
About equal, really. I did notice when I taught, back in the '60s, that most all of the principals 
were men, and all of the assistant principals. They call them vice principals, which I thought was 
pretty, pretty right on, the way they all acted. They were all men, and I wondered about that. I 
thought, you know, that was pretty icky. And I notice today, it's changed a little bit, but not 
enough. I mean, most presidents of universities are men, you know, why is that, we wonder. And 
there, there has always been the discrepancy, in my age group, men always get more than a 
woman. And I hope that changes. I think it will.  
 
Katherin Hervey  08:57 
What about as a hypnotherapist, is that pretty much working on your own? 
 
Saranel Binyon  09:01 
In that work, yeah, I've worked on my own with that. And it seems like that women have the 
edge there, in health fields, most health fields, because we are more, more maternal, more 
nurturing and more supporting, more, we can, I think women listen better than men, and are 
more, more intuitive than men. So, it's been better that way. And I've seen a lot of men in this 
field that aren't very good, of course, there are some good ones, but [?overall, I think?] women 
are better.  
 
Katherin Hervey  09:38 
Do you think people come to you because you're a woman, in some ways? 
 
Saranel Binyon  09:46 
I would hope so, and then again, I would hope not. I don't know. I don't have a clue. 
 
Katherin Hervey  09:57 
[?I've already asked all the things we had?].  
 
Saranel Binyon  10:07 
Do you want clarification on some of them, or what? 
 
Katherin Hervey  10:16 
Page 8 of 19 
 
I don't know. Maybe when I go back and listen to the tapes, they'll come in the next time. Is there 
one, is there any you want to clarify?  
 
Saranel Binyon  10:23 
No, I don't know. I don't know what you need. 
 
Katherin Hervey  10:30 
Did you ever have a job where it was possible to move up to more money or more interesting 
work? 
 
Saranel Binyon  10:37 
Possibly at the university, I could have done that. You know, there were women that were 
becoming department heads at that time, and now there's a woman president at the university. 
So, yeah, I just wasn't into that, you know, I just, I just didn't like being in academia, I thought 
that they were a little pompous and a little fake and a lot silly. [?How long have you been 
teaching again?]? 
 
Katherin Hervey  11:06 
No, that's my brother. 
 
Saranel Binyon  11:09 
Oh, excuse me, wrong one, wrong one. 
 
Katherin Hervey  11:19 
What was the best job you ever had? 
 
Saranel Binyon  11:20 
This one.  
 
Katherin Hervey  11:21 
Why is that? 
 
Saranel Binyon  11:29 
Because I get to use more of my skills. I like and believe in what I do, and I can see the changes 
it makes in people. I mean, this works, I like that. When you're teaching, you don't always know 
what, if you've taught them anything, and if you do hypnotherapy, you don't know, they may be 
asleep. But with this, it's, you can see the results in that sense.  
 
Katherin Hervey  11:51 
Do you think that people are more receptive to doing this than they are to hypnotherapy? 
 
Saranel Binyon  11:58 
In the beginning, yes, but I feel like that, that's changing. I think that because the HMOs are 
making it so difficult for people to get medical, you know, like, in quotes medical treatment, that 
more people are trying alternative health care, and hypnotherapy is right at the top of the list on 
that. And I think that's really good, it's time that we learned how to use our minds rather than 
Page 9 of 19 
 
take a pill. As a matter of fact, I'm writing an article about that, about I think that we are turning 
our children into dope addicts by giving them all that, the Ritalin and all that stuff. You know, 
we're saying, "Here, alter your reality with this pill, but don't smoke pot." 
 
Katherin Hervey  12:39 
We know a fine example of that one.  
 
Saranel Binyon  12:40 
Yes, we do. And I think that that is why that fine example exists, because he was given stuff. 
And that, I'm not going to say that in my article because, I don't remember [inaudible]. I know 
that's happening, you know, well, if this, if what mama gives us is going to alter reality, imagine 
what my friends give me, how that's gonna alter my reality. You can see this happening in kids, 
so, I'm upset about that.  
 
Katherin Hervey  13:03 
What are you writing the article for?  
 
Saranel Binyon  13:08 
It's for a newsletter that I'm gonna put out, but I am gonna send it to all the publications locally, 
and a couple of the nationals, because I feel really strongly about it. And we have a war on drugs, 
right? 
 
Katherin Hervey  13:24 
Expand on that?  
 
Saranel Binyon  13:25 
Well, the war on drugs. What does that mean? War on illegal drugs. How come they're illegal if, 
well, for instance, some of the illegal drugs are very useful for it, since marijuana is excellent for 
a painkiller. I mean, if you had a really bad pain and you take a really good puff, the pain is 
gone, and it doesn't make totally goofy. Whereas if you took [?Demerol?], you'd be flat on the 
floor. So, I think that, I think that we need to change our conception of drugs, and instead of a 
war, we ought to tax them and take that money to treat the addicts that we've created and to open 
clinics and really begin to help people. We could fund our whole medical system by taxing 
cocaine and marijuana. I think that would be an excellent way. 
 
Katherin Hervey  14:21 
What about other drugs, besides cocaine and marijuana? 
 
Saranel Binyon  14:24 
Well, drugs, period. Any illegal drug, if we made them legal and tax them, we would have 
beaucoup of money. Whereas, the way it is now, the government, our government, there again, 
and the criminals are getting the money. I think the people need it. And I think that if it were 
legal, it would take a lot of the mystique. I mean, if your mother offered you a marijuana 
cigarette, are you going to want it? No. 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:00 
Page 10 of 19 
 
Can you imagine? That was a nice visual, I might add. 
 
Saranel Binyon  15:08 
That was kind of fun, wasn't it? Can you-- [they laugh]. 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:14 
Or, or her mother offering it.  
 
Saranel Binyon  15:16 
Oh, my God, my mind will barely wrap around that one. I like that you're able to come and ask 
to do this study. Because I was sitting here thinking five years ago, this probably wouldn't have 
happened. I like that women are beginning to wake up and be included in medical studies. Is that 
not wonderful? And that women have history too. We are becoming citizens and people, that's 
just wonderful. 
 
Katherin Hervey  16:05 
Do you think it's happening too slowly?  
 
Saranel Binyon  16:08 
Oh, yes, way too slowly. But any change, I think, comes slowly, although I'm seeing this speed 
up a little bit because there are a bunch of pissed off women out there, and that's good. Because 
you have to become really angry before you're gonna make a change or something.  
 
Katherin Hervey  16:25 
Yeah, I think the anger's good. 
 
Saranel Binyon  16:27 
I like the anger, but let's not stew in it, let's use it to push forward. 
 
Katherin Hervey  16:31 
Well, what do you what do you do as reform for women? Just, I mean, I don't think you have to 
be a member of the national organization [inaudible] or anything. 
 
Saranel Binyon  16:38 
I mouth a lot. Every time I get a chance, I talk about it. I talk about how the women should stand 
up. And I especially like to work with younger children and younger girls and say, "Well, you 
can be a doctor. Well, you know, what do you think? You have a right," blah, blah, blah, like 
that. And always supporting that idea. And in groups, when I speak, I will always make a 
reference to women's power in some form. I feel like it's my own vocation and my duty and I'm 
thrilled to do it.  
 
Katherin Hervey  16:42 
Oh, here's one, how do you think your work experiences would have been different if you were a 
man? 
 
Saranel Binyon  17:19 
Page 11 of 19 
 
Well, I would've probably chosen a different profession. I probably would have been a doctor. 
God know where that would have led, or I would have stayed in my family's businesses, 
probably had a lot of money and died of heart attack or cancer.  
 
Katherin Hervey  17:46 
[?Nice?]. 
 
Saranel Binyon  17:46 
Well, hey. 
 
Katherin Hervey  17:47 
Why do you say that? Because that's something you wouldn't push to do? 
 
Saranel Binyon  17:52 
Yeah, yeah. And probably would have smoked, because most men, you know, in my age group, 
smoke, ick, and drink. Oh, what a lovely life. Thank God I wasn't a man. 
 
Katherin Hervey  18:08 
Would you have married? 
 
Saranel Binyon  18:10 
Oh, I'm sure. If, if I had it to do over now, what I've married? No.  
 
Katherin Hervey  18:18 
No? 
 
Saranel Binyon  18:19 
No, I would have had my babies without any, yeah, I think it's better that way. For me, it would 
have been better. It would have been easier not to have been married.  
 
Katherin Hervey  18:19 
Do you think a lot of women your age feel that way at all?  
 
Saranel Binyon  18:31 
Oh yes, a whole bunch, especially women that have been through divorce or menopause, those 
are the two liberating things, because after you've been divorced, after you've been through 
menopause, and you're 50, you don't have anything else to prove. So, you can be as [?sinning?] 
as a snake, and it's okay. 
 
Katherin Hervey  18:51 
Why do Why do you say menopause?  
 
Saranel Binyon  18:53 
Menopause frees you a certain way in that you're not afraid of becoming pregnant. So, you can 
do things, like who you want to, you have more power over your body, and also you have 
reached a plateau of growth. It seems like when you start into your 40s, you begin to shift into 
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the person that you really were meant to be, and by the time you're 50, if you live that long, you 
pretty well hit it. I do notice that now, it's starting earlier. My daughter, who's 37 now, is already 
much wiser and much more her own person at that age than I was when I was 37 so that's good 
to see too.  
 
Katherin Hervey  19:37 
Why do you think that is? 
 
Saranel Binyon  19:38 
The women's movement, the change in reality and the idea that women can-- She's in sales, and 
she's one of the top people in her in her area, because she is a woman and she listens and she's 
very good at what she does. So, that's good, you know, that women are being appreciated for 
what they do and getting paid for it. I mean, it's wonderful to have appreciation, but we want 
money too. 
 
Katherin Hervey  20:14 
Do you guys have a close relationship?  
 
Saranel Binyon  20:16 
Very. 
 
Katherin Hervey  20:16 
Does she live here?  
 
Saranel Binyon  20:17 
She lives in Portland. 
 
Katherin Hervey  20:18 
That's close.  
 
Saranel Binyon  20:19 
Yeah, yeah, close enough.  
 
Katherin Hervey  20:22 
When did she move there?  
 
Saranel Binyon  20:24 
A year after I moved up here. And she's married to a really nice guy, a real sweet person that 
understands about women and their issues, and I appreciate that. It's very, it's kind of rare. 
 
Katherin Hervey  20:41 
Otherwise, would you have been ambivalent about her getting married? Maybe not voicing it.  
 
Saranel Binyon  20:41 
Yeah, well, you try not to tell your kid what to do. I was, she waited until she was 32 and I was 
delighted. Some of the people she dated, oh God. I waited, I waited a year. She and this guy had 
Page 13 of 19 
 
been dating a year before I even acknowledged him, because I liked him, and I was afraid that if 
I liked him, it'd be this kiss of death. So, I didn't even tell her till after she married him that I 
liked him.  
 
Katherin Hervey  21:15 
Oh, really?  
 
Saranel Binyon  21:16 
I was afraid to. 
 
Katherin Hervey  21:19 
What about your son?  
 
Saranel Binyon  21:24 
God, my son, that's another story. He's married to a woman that is 13 years older, you'd think, 
maybe 15, you're not sure, years older than he is, and he's raising her two children. 
 
Katherin Hervey  21:38 
You don't approve of them?  
 
Saranel Binyon  21:40 
It's not the age difference that bothers me. It's the fact that she represents the old school of 
controlling through guilt and controlling through manipulation and not honesty, and she's an 
adrenaline junkie. Everything that happens is about her and, and I'm saying this, it sounds real 
mother in law-ish, but I don't really mean it that way. I've just noticed that, you know, 
everything, every conversation, goes back to her needs and her wants. And she has him totally 
flipped, as they say, and it has made me sad. He, when he was growing up, he was, he was so 
cute, so cute and darling, and now I see this haggard old man. That's my son. I mean, she just 
really makes him unhappy, but he's letting it happen. So, you know, my respect for him is 
plummeting. 
 
Katherin Hervey  22:40 
Do you consider her kids to be your grandchildren? 
 
Saranel Binyon  22:43 
No, not at all.  
 
Katherin Hervey  22:43 
Do you have grandchildren? 
 
Saranel Binyon  22:45 
No, I don't.  
 
Katherin Hervey  22:45 
Do you want grandchildren? 
 
Page 14 of 19 
 
Saranel Binyon  22:47 
I'd like to have a granddaughter if it's convenient for my daughter to pop one out. It hadn't been, 
so, I would really like to have granddaughter on some days and on other days, I don't care. 
 
Katherin Hervey  22:59 
But not a grandson? 
 
Saranel Binyon  23:01 
Yeah, I'd have a grandson too. It was just that, daughters are easier than the sons, I think. At 
least, you know, I think that, I think you are closer to your daughter than you are your son. 
Because this son is pretty, well, you know, we're not close anymore. And I think that happens a 
lot.  
 
Katherin Hervey  23:21 
You mean as a mother? 
 
Saranel Binyon  23:22 
As a mother, yeah. You'll have to tell your teacher that we embellished the tape with [?dog?] 
[inaudible].  
 
Katherin Hervey  23:45 
Yeah, I think he'll pick up on it. What to date has been the most exciting part of your life? 
 
Saranel Binyon  23:58 
The most exciting part of my life, hmm, to date. Now, it's always now.  
 
Katherin Hervey  24:04 
Good answer. 
 
Saranel Binyon  24:11 
It's not to, it's not now tomorrow. [Whispers] Go away we're working here. 
 
Katherin Hervey  24:20 
Do you remember reading anything or seeing a movie or meeting someone special that 
influenced your life dramatically? 
 
Saranel Binyon  24:38 
All the religious things I read were quite influential in that it taught me a lot about human nature, 
and it made me think about dimensions and outer space and all that. That was one influence, and 
then the other one was Gone With the Wind, with Scarlet. I really have always identified with 
Scarlet O'Hara. 
 
Katherin Hervey  24:55 
Why's that? 
 
Saranel Binyon  24:57 
Page 15 of 19 
 
Because she was strong and knew what she wanted and got it. And did what it took for her to get 
it. And I liked that, I liked that idea. And she was able to, even if she was a woman, she was able 
to do it way, way back then. I liked that. 
 
Katherin Hervey  25:11 
When did that movie come out?  
 
Saranel Binyon  25:15 
The book that, the book was there too. Yeah, I read the book.  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:22 
Not me. 
 
Saranel Binyon  25:24 
Have you seen the movie?  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:26 
Oh yeah, yeah, I haven't read it. 
 
Saranel Binyon  25:29 
Okay, but you don't have to read it as long as you've seen it.  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:34 
Oh yeah, of course.  
 
Saranel Binyon  25:33 
I saw The Tango Lesson the other night.  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:35 
Did you? 
 
Saranel Binyon  25:35 
That was good.  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:38 
Was that not beautiful? I had a free pass to it when we went to see it.  
 
Saranel Binyon  25:42 
Did you go? Did you love it?  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:47 
I loved it.  
 
Saranel Binyon  25:48 
I did too. 
 
Page 16 of 19 
 
Katherin Hervey  25:49 
The cinematography in it was beautiful--  
 
Saranel Binyon  25:50 
Blown away by those faces.  
 
Katherin Hervey  25:53 
Oh, she was, she just was so confident. She just had this whole grace and it really just-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  26:02 
And the eyes, the eyes that she would give. 
 
Katherin Hervey  26:09 
Yeah, the totally peaceful energy, no matter what situation, she was just awesome.  
 
Saranel Binyon  26:09 
I just liked it. 
 
Katherin Hervey  26:10 
Yeah, I don't think a lot of people are gonna like it, though.  
 
Saranel Binyon  26:10 
Why?  
 
Katherin Hervey  26:11 
Well, I think that, and when I was seeing it, that people, you know, like that whole moment when 
they're crying and stuff like that, kind of where they're sitting in the cafe, you know? Which I 
think was supposed to be kind of this play on, like life and art, you know, where does one end 
and one begin?  
 
Saranel Binyon  26:28 
Yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  26:29 
Especially, maybe they even alluded to it after, but then other parts they didn't allude to after. 
And I think-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  26:34 
But that's the way life is.  
 
Katherin Hervey  26:35 
Yeah. 
 
Saranel Binyon  26:36 
You follow a continual stream.  
 
Page 17 of 19 
 
Katherin Hervey  26:38 
I think that, yeah, it's just not gonna [inaudible] maybe. 
 
Saranel Binyon  26:43 
Well, it's the, it was very subtle, and a lot of people maybe need to be hit on the head like 
Titanic.  
 
Katherin Hervey  26:59 
I haven't seen that.  
 
Saranel Binyon  27:00 
I haven't either and probably won't.  
 
Katherin Hervey  27:02 
No? 
 
Saranel Binyon  26:57 
I might go look at the clothes, but the rest of it.  
 
Katherin Hervey  27:02 
Let's see. 
 
Saranel Binyon  27:02 
So, you'll do movies like that, won't you? 
 
Katherin Hervey  27:16 
I want to. More documentary, though, but eventually, and that was kind of interesting, too-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  27:23 
It was almost a documentary. 
 
Katherin Hervey  27:25 
Because it was like a narrative documentary, so. 
 
Saranel Binyon  27:27 
I'm glad you saw it, [?that was good?].  
 
Katherin Hervey  27:28 
Oh, beautiful, just so beautiful.  
 
Saranel Binyon  27:31 
I liked the color against the black and white. 
 
Katherin Hervey  27:38 
Yeah. I just like her.  
 
Page 18 of 19 
 
Saranel Binyon  27:40 
Oh, yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  27:46 
Do I talk about puberty and sex education? 
 
Saranel Binyon  27:49 
That won't take long.  
 
Katherin Hervey  27:50 
No? No sex education? 
 
Saranel Binyon  27:54 
Very little. Very, very little.  
 
Katherin Hervey  27:56 
What about menstruation?  
 
Saranel Binyon  27:57 
I started that when I was 11, and thought it was a pain in the butt, because I was always kind of 
sick. It was a total bother. And back then, you were taught to be ashamed. Now why? I don't 
know, I don't understand, still haven't figured-- 
 
Katherin Hervey  28:15 
I think that's still true. 
 
Saranel Binyon  28:17 
It's still true, really? 
 
Katherin Hervey  28:19 
Well, no, I don't think ashamed, but embarrassment, like a little embarrassment thing, because I 
always talk about it. 
 
Saranel Binyon  28:28 
You should. 
 
Katherin Hervey  28:29 
I can tell people are uncomfortable.  
 
Saranel Binyon  28:31 
Oh, goody, do it then. You know, if it makes them squirm, do it louder. Good. As far as such, sex 
education, I was taught not to screw around, which then I immediately did. I mean, if someone 
says no, hey, got to do it, got to do it. And consequently, got pregnant earlier than I probably 
should have, which turned out, okay.  
 
Katherin Hervey  28:53 
Page 19 of 19 
 
How old were you when you got pregnant?  
 
Saranel Binyon  28:55 
I was 17.  
 
Katherin Hervey  28:56 
Is that, is that why you got married?  
 
Saranel Binyon  28:58 
Oh, yeah. Why else would you get married?  
 
Katherin Hervey  28:59 
So, you didn't want to get married?  
 
Saranel Binyon  29:01 
Yeah, I really didn't, but it would have embarrassed my family. I mean, you know you didn't 
have a baby out of wedlock then. 
 
Katherin Hervey  29:13 
In Odessa, Texas. 
 
Saranel Binyon  29:14 
In Odessa, Texas, no, God, when your daddy's one of the town leaders. So, yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  29:21 
So, was it hidden? Like, did you have to pretend like you weren't pregnant? 
 
Saranel Binyon  29:25 
No, I didn't. I refused to do that. I got, I was stubborn about that. And I went to school and 
realized that I was uncomfortable around the kids because they all looked at my belly. So, I had 
already finished all my classes, and I was just, it was our senior year, and I wanted to graduate 
with, with the father of my children. And so I took a class at home, and, but I went to the dances 
and to the football games, with the belly hanging out. And then the next term, there were like 10 
other girls that got pregnant. So, I thought, oh, God, I did it, yeah I did it. And I'm sorry. I'm 
sorry that they got pregnant. I'm certainly not sorry that I got pregnant and had my daughter. I 
mean, that was wonderful, but I would have done it a little bit differently maybe like, not have 
gotten married, that that was the kiss of death. 
 
Katherin Hervey  30:24 
So, how did you raise your daughter differently than, you know, from your experiences, from 
how you were raised? 
 
Saranel Binyon  30:29 
I seldom told her no. I got her a horse when she was three, and taught her about that, of course I 
had horses too, but really let her grow into the caring and the nurturing. She's very dyslexic, so 
she didn't read until she was in the third gr-- [recording ends]. 